Z16291 Ely Carroll DNA

Abridged Ely Carroll Big Y SNP Tree

R-Z16291 is the Y-DNA of Cian who lived around 200 AD (Ancient Pedigrees)

Z16291 is shared by men with 9 names that match names in ancient pedigrees going back to Cian: Bohan/Bowes, Carroll, Corcoran, Dooley, Flanagan, Keeffe, Kealy/Kelly, Meagher, Murphy, Redmond (Matching Sets of Nine Names)

Included is the Y-DNA of two U.S. Founding Fathers, the first U.S. Catholic Bishop and founder of Georgetown University, and the original owner of the land on which the U.S. Capitol is built.: Ancient Pedigrees

Historical pedigrees say Olioll Olum, King of Munster, had three sons, but Y-DNA shows they are not related (History Lessons):

• Owen Mor (Eoghanachta) has CTS4466
• Cormac Cas (Brian Boru) has L226
• Cian (Ely Carroll) has Z16291

Foreword

I have no business writing this. I am not a Carroll. My wife is, but we found out she is the wrong kind of Carroll. Like many Carrolls in America, my wife's family thought they were related to Charles Carroll of Carrollton, signer of the Declaration of Independence (who, in turn, was descended from the Ely Carrolls).

After I had my Y-chromosome DNA tested and found out I was descended from The Three Collas, I started to wonder about my wife's Carrolls. We found a male second cousin of my wife, Michael Patrick Carroll, and had his Y-DNA tested (Y-DNA is passed down from male to male like surnames). Turns out, he was descended from the Carrolls of Ossory rather than the Carrolls of Ely Carroll. But I was hooked on Ely Carroll. Kevin Carroll, adminstrator of the Carroll project at Family Tree DNA, had found a descendant of Charles Carroll of Carrollton. I decided to start a project at Family Tree DNA devoted to the DNA of all surnames descended from Ely Carroll.

This page is about the DNA of an ancient Irish clan called Ely Carroll. This is a name that surfaced in the Middle Ages. Ely is an anglicized form of Éile, a territory in Tipperary and Offaly. This clan goes back to a man named Cian who lived in Ireland around 200 AD.

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The Carrolls of Maryland

Several famous descendants of Ely Carroll lived in Maryland:

• Charles Carroll the Settler, 1660-1720, emigrated from Ireland to the colony of Maryland in 1688. Built the Carroll House in Annapolis and Doughregan Manor near Ellicott City.
• Charles Carroll of Carrollton, 1737-1832, a signer of the American Declaration of Independence in 1776.
• John Lee Carroll, 1830-1911, great grandson of Charles Carroll of Carrollton, was governor of Maryland from 1876 to 1880
• Daniel Carroll of Duddington, 1764-1849, built a home for himself in 1791 which was torn down by Pierre L’Enfant to build the U.S. Capitol
• Charles Carroll of Bellevue, 1767-1823, was friends with president James Madison and his wife Dolly. During the War of 1812, he went to the White House and saved the portrait of President George Washington for Dolly. He then took her to his home Bellevue in Georgetown, Washington, DC, until she could be reunited with the President.
• Daniel Carroll II of Rock Creek, 1730-1796, was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States. He supported the American Revolution, served in the Confederation Congress, was a delegate to the Philadelphia Convention of 1787 which wrote the Constitution, and was a U.S. Representative in the First Congress.
• John Carroll, S.J., 1735-1815, was the first Roman Catholic bishop and archbishop in the United States. He founded Georgetown University in 1791.

Charles Carroll the Settler

Charles Carroll the Settler emigrated from Ireland to the colony of Maryland in 1688. Maryland was intended to be a haven for Catholics oppressed in England, Scotland and Ireland. Title to the colony of Maryland was held by the Calverts, Barons Baltimore. Charles was made Attorney General of the colony by Charles Calvert, 3rd Baron Baltimore. Charles was also granted land in Maryland in compensation for that taken from his family in Ireland. In 1689, however, Maryland was declared a crown colony by William and Mary II. The Catholic Charles Calvert lost his properietorship of the colony, Charles Carroll lost his position as Attorney General.

Charles Carroll the Settler built the Carroll House in Annapolis and Doughregan Manor near Ellicott City.When Charles the Settler died in 1720 he was the wealthiest person in Maryland.

The pedigree of Charles Carroll the Settler goes back to 200 AD in Ireland. And the Y-DNA of his descendants matches up with that of men with surnames like Meagher and Flanagan that are supposed to be related based on ancient pedigrees.

Charles Carroll House and Gardens of Annapolis, Maryland. Photo by Charles Harrison.

Charles Carroll House and Gardens of Annapolis, Maryland. Photo by Charles Harrison.

Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Charles Carroll of Carrollton was a grandson of Charles Carroll the Settler. Charles Carroll of Carrollton is important because he was a signer of the Declaration of Independence in 1776. He was the only Roman Catholic to sign, and he was the sole surviving signer following the deaths of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson on July 4, 1826.

Signature of Charles Carroll of Carrrollton on the Declaration of Independence, 1776.

Carroll served in the Maryland Senate from 1781 to 1800. He was elected as one of Maryland's inaugural representatives in the United States Senate but resigned from the United States Senate in 1792 after Maryland passed a law barring individuals from simultaneously serving in state and federal office. After retiring from public office, he helped establish the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad.

In 2008, a descendant of Charles Carroll of Carrollton joined the Carroll DNA Project at Family Tree DNA and had his Y-chromosome DNA tested. His DNA is published along side other Carrolls on the Carroll DNA Project Results page at FTDNA. He is kit 112378.

Y-DNA is handed down male to male like traditional surnames. So, his DNA is the same as his ancestor, Charles Carroll of Carrollton. Other Carrolls in the Carroll surname DNA Project could now see whether their DNA matched up. About 10% of the Carrolls in the Carroll surname project match up.

Charles Carroll of Bellevue

Charles Carroll of Bellevue (1767-1823), first cousin of Charles Carroll the Settler, once removed, was a co-founder of Rochester, New York.

He was friends with president James Madison and his wife Dolly. It was Charles who went to the White House during the War of 1812. He saved the portrait of President George Washington for Dolly. He then took her to his home Bellevue in Georgetown, Washington, DC, until she could be reunited with the President.

The Bellevue home, now called Dumbarton House, has the portrait of Charles and his grandmother Ann Rozier on display there.

His son William Thomas Carroll (1802-1863) was friends with President Abraham Lincoln. It was William's Bible that Lincoln was sworn in on. It also exist today. When Lincoln's son Willie died William Thomas Carroll offered a temporary space in the Carroll mausoleum.

The Carroll mausoleum has many Carrolls, including the son William Thomas Carroll, Major General Samuel Sprigg Carroll. General Carroll's land became Takoma Park, Maryland.

Theis line of Carrolls, has a Y-DNA tester, David Carroll. He is a great great great grandson of Charles Carroll of Bellevue. Encouraged by his sister Bernadette, he had his Y-DNA tested at Family Tree DNA. His kit is number 738989. The testing shows that he has the SNP R-BY20010. The date of BY20010 has been very roughly estimated to be 1250 AD. See: Ely Carroll BIG Y SNP Tree. He shares this SNP with another Carroll tester who has kit 112378. David and this tester are both descendants of Charles carroll the Settler.

Copy of Portrait of George Washington saved by Charles carroll of Bellevue. See: Dolly Madison Rescues George Washington.

Home of Charles Carroll of Bellevue, now called Dumbarton House. Where Charles Carroll of Bellevue took Dolly Madison and the portrait of George Washington in 1814 during the War of 1812. See: Dumbarton House. "Our kind friend, Mr. Carroll, has come to hasten my departure, and is in a very bad humor with me because I insist on waiting until the large picture of Gen. Washington is secured, and it requires to be unscrewed from the wall. This process was found too tedious for these perilous moments; I have ordered the frame to be broken, and the canvass taken out it is done, and the precious portrait placed in the hands of two gentlemen of New York, for safe keeping. And now, dear sister, I must leave this house, or the retreating army will make me a prisoner in it, by filling up the road I am directed to take. When I shall again write you, or where I shall be tomorrow, I cannot tell!!" - Dolly Madison in a letter to her sister

Archbishop John Carroll SJ

John Carroll SJ (1735-1815), second cousin of Charles Carroll the Settler, served as the first bishop and archbishop in the United States. The diocese first encompassed all of the United States and later the eastern half of the new nation.

Carroll was also the founder of Georgetown University, the oldest Catholic college in the United States.

Portrait of Bishop John Carroll, Gilbert Stuart, circa 1806.

Bishop John Carroll lays the cornerstone in 1806 for the Cathedral of the Assumption on Cathedral Hill in Baltimore, first Roman Catholic cathedral to be constructed in the United States. The cathedral opened in 1821. The funeral Mass for Charles Carroll, of Carrollton was here in 1832.

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Ancient Pedigree of Kits 112378 and 738989

Years 200 to 1150.

John O'Hart, 1824-1902.

John O'Hart (1824-1902) provides a pedigree entitled "Princes of Ely O'Carroll" in his book, Irish Pedigrees; or, the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation, published in 1892 (fifth edition), Volumes I and II.

Google Books has made the 1892 edition available online: Volume I and Volume II. The University of Pittsburgh Library System has made the 1892 edition available online as a PDF file or Ebook: Volume I and Volume II. Library Ireland has made a transcript of Volume I available online.

Years 1150 to 1550. The October 1883 issue of the Journal of the Royal Historical and Archaeological Association of Ireland contains an article by Frederick John O'Carroll entitled "True Version of the Pedigree of Carroll of Carrollton." The article takes the above pedigree from Fionn, King of Ely, who was slain 1205, up to Donough, who lived around 1550.

Years 1550 to the present. In the year 2000, The University of North Carolina Press published a book that includes a pedigree of Charles Carroll of Carrollton. The author is Ronald Huffman, professor of history at the College of William and Mary. The title is Princes of Ireland, Planters of Maryland: A Carroll Saga, 1500-1782. Also see WikiTree. Below are pedigrees taken from that book, with the addition of descendants down to two Y-DNA testers: kits 112378 and 738989. (Generation numbers have been added to facilitate reference to the more distant pedigrees provided above.)

125. Donnell McTeige Oure O'Carroll of Kenechane and Ballymooney – circa 1550 126. Daniel Carroll of Ballymooney
127. Anthony Carroll of Aghagurty 128. Daniel Carroll of Aghagurty and Litterluna (1642-1688) 129. Charles Carroll the Settler (1660-1720) – immigrated to Maryland in 1688 and brought with him a "little Irish Manuscript Book" containing the genealogies of the O'Carrolls. Built Doughregan Manor near Ellicott City, Maryland, and the Carroll House in Annapolis			127. Keane Carroll of Aghagurty 128. Daniel Carroll I of Upper Marlboro (1696-1751)
			129. Daniel Carroll II of Rock Creek (1730-1796) – signer of both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution 130. Daniel Carroll III (1752-1790)	129. John Carroll, S.J. (1735-1815) – first Roman Catholic bishop in the United States. Founder of Georgetown University and Georgetown Preparatory School
130. Charles Carroll of Annapolis (1702-1782) 131. Charles Carroll of Carrollton (1737-1832) – signer of the Declaration of Independence 132. Charles Carroll of Homewood (1775-1825) 133. Charles Carroll V (1801-1862) 134. John Lee Carroll (1830-1911) – Governor of Maryland from 1876 to 1880 135. Philip Acosta Carroll (1879-1957) 136. Philip Acosta Carroll Jr (1924-2010) 137. Private, kit 112378	130. Daniel Carroll of Duddington (1707-1734) – received the land on which the Capitol would be built when he married Ann Rozer 131. Charles Carroll of Duddington and Carrollsburg (1729-1773)
	132. Daniel Carroll of Duddington (1764-1849) – built a home for himself in 1791 which was torn down by Pierre L’Enfant to build the U.S. Capitol. The Senate met there in 1799, the House met there in 1807, and it was completed in 1829. In 1812 a partnership, Williams and Carrolls, erected Sligo Mill to mill grain and distill whiskey on Sligo Creek in Tacoma Park, Maryland. Partners were Daniel Carroll of Duddington, his brother Charles Carroll of Bellevue, and Elie Williams.	132. Charles Carroll of Bellevue (1767-1823) 133. William Thomas Carroll (1802-1863) – Supreme Court Clerk 134. Samuel Sprigg Carroll (1831-1893) – Major General 135. Samuel Sprigg Carroll Jr (1875-1935) 136. Mahlon Ashford Carroll (1921-2002) 137. David Carroll, kit 738989

Carroll 738989 has done Big Y-500 and has the SNP R-BY20010. The date of BY20010 has been very roughly estimated to be 1250 AD. See: Ely Carroll BIG Y SNP Tree.

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Ely Carroll Timeline

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Birr Castle

Birr Castle is a large castle in the town of Birr in the barony of Ballybritt, County Offaly, Ireland. St. Brendan the Elder (not the Navigator) founded a monastery in Birr about 540, serving as its abbot. There has been a castle on the site since 1170, and from the 14th to the 17th century. The O'Carroll family ruled from here over an area known as "Ely O'Carroll." According to the Birr Historical Society, "the present castle building was developed on the site of a previous tower house and bawn probably built by the Anglo-Normans. It subsequently became an Ely O'Carroll stronghold. It was demolished in 1778 and all trace of it has disappeared in the terraces and herbaceous borders."

Birr Castle today.

The castle above was not the original castle. Genetic genealogist Maurice Gleeson forwarded an article in The Irish Times of August 6, 2018: "Archaeologists and historians have been turning up unusual finds across the country thanks to the heatwave, including . . . . impressions of the Ely O’Carroll “Black Castle.”

“The Black Castle would have been more or less the headquarters of the O’Carrolls,” explained Mr Kennedy. He said most of the old castle was long gone. “Where the main hall of the castle is today was originally the gate.”

"The Black Castle was held by the O’Carrolls until the 1580s when it was sold to the Ormond Butlers. The castle fell into ruin before it was granted to the Parsons family by James I in 1620.

"While it was known the old castle had been located on the grounds of the existing castle, the exact location has only now been revealed thanks to the weather."

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Ely Carroll Maps

Ireland circa 700 AD, showing Éile in north eastern Munster. Source: Dennis Walsh, Ireland's History in Maps. Also see his history of Éile.

Excerpt from 1899 map of Ireland, showing the baronies of Ely Carroll: Ormond Upper, Eliogarty (Carroll), and Ikerrin (Meagher) in County Tipperary and Conlisk and Ballybritt (Flanagan) in Kings County, which is now called County Offaly. Lough Derg on the left, separates County Tipperary from County Clare.

Ballymooney castle, Oakleypark townland, Seirkieran parish, Ballybritt barony, County Offaly, Ireland. Where 125. Donnell McTeige Oure O'Carroll circa 1550 and 126. Daniel Carroll lived. Source: 2UA.ORG.

Birr castle,Townparks townland, Birr parish, Ballybritt barony, County Offaly, Ireland. The O'Carroll family had a castle located at the present site of Birr Castle until the 1580s. Source: 2UA.ORG.

Aghagurty townland, Seirkieran parish, Ballybritt barony, County Offaly, Ireland. Where 127. Anthony Carroll and son 128. Daniiel Carroll (1642-1688) lived. Source: 2UA.ORG.

Letter townland, Letterluna parish, Ballybritt barony, County Offaly, Ireland. Where 129. Daniel Carroll (1642-1688) lived. Source: 2UA.ORG.

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The O’Carrol Papers

The University of Limerick Special Collection has The O’Carrol Papers. This Carrol family traces its origins back to Cian, like the O’Carroll’s of Ely whose territories comprised the present baronies of Ikerrin and Eliogarty in County Tipperary.

The Castle Entrance, Nenagh. Source: Ask about Ireland.

This Carrol family's heritage begins with Colonel ‘Long’ Anthony O’Carroll who defended Nenagh Castle, a Carroll stronghold, against Williamite forces in 1691 and who soon after attacked and defeated a Dutch force at Barra Bog. In 1712, Long Anthony favoured his cousin James Carrol of Tulla, (who through his mother’s dowry had already inherited the lands of Lissen or Kilkeary) with Lishenalclouta, Garrynamony and other townlands in the Barony of Upper Ormonde, Co. Tipperary as a reward for his services during these actions. While James never married and died intestate, his brother William, a Lieutenant in Viscount Mountjoy’s regiment, succeeded him. It was his grandson also named William Carrol that provides the foundation of, and is central to, the material in this collection.

The alteration of the family name came about as a response to the introduction from 1695 of harsh penal laws which prohibited Catholics from buying land, inheriting it from Protestants or leasing it for more than 31 years. The Carrolls like many other substantial Catholic landowners at the time conformed to the established religion to ensure retention of their estates. In a process of Anglicisation the family removed the ‘O’ and the last ‘l’ from O’Carroll, adding Parker as a second forename was seen as a furtherance of this progression.

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O'Meagher, Chiefs of Ikerin

Distribution of Maher/Meagher and variants in Pender's "Census" of 1659. Source: John Grenham.

The barony of Ikerin is in County Tipperary between the baronies of Eliogarty in Tipperary and Ballybritt in County Offaly. Its chief town is Roscrea. Roscrea is one of the oldest towns in Ireland, having developed around the 7th century monastery of Saint Crónán of Roscrea, parts of which remain preserved today.

In her Maher Matters, Janet Maher discusses her ancestry back to the present barony of Ikerrin in County Tipperary. She considers an 1890 book by Joseph Casimir O’Meagher, Some Historical Notices of the O’Meaghers of Ikerrin, to be the bible about Maher, a first resource in beginning to study the ancestry of the name.

In his Irish pedigrees, 1892, John O'Hart includes a Meagher/Maher pedigree starting with "O'Carroll, Princes of Ely," on page 178 and proceeding to "O'Meagher, Chiefs of Ikerin, County Tipperary" on 237. Page 237 starts with Fionnachta, second son of Conla and brother of Iomchadh Uallach on page 179. There are 45 generations staring with Cian and ending with five Meagher brothers born between 1864 and 1876: Joseph Dermod, John Kevin, Donn Casimir, Malachy Marie, and Fergal Thaddeus.

The majority of men named Meagher/Maher and variations thereof have Ely Carroll Y-DNA. A male with that name has a 60% chance of having Ely Carroll Y-DNA. This is based on 27 members of the Meagher project at Family Tree DNA in October 2022 who had the surname and had tested 67 or 111 markers. Sixteen of these had STRs 594=11 and 492=11. This compares with an earlier study of Carrolls, where only 10% of Carrolls had Ely Carroll Y-DNA.

O'Flanagan, Chiefs of Kinelargy

In his Irish pedigrees, 1892, John O'Hart includes a Flanagan pedigree starting with "O'Carroll, Princes of Ely," on page 178 and proceeding to "O'Flanagan, Chiefs of Kinelargy in Ely O'Carroll," on page 203. Page 203 starts with Fec, brother of Iomduhn and son of Sabhrann on page 179. There are only 19 generations staring with Cian and ending with Cucalma O'Flanagan. A footnote says that Kinelargy is an ancient territory that corresponds with the present barony of Ballybritt.

Ballybritt derives its name from Ballybritt Castle (near Roscrea) and the townland of Ballybritt. Ballybritt barony is located in south County Offaly, west of the Slieve Bloom Mountains. Ballybritt was included in the northern part of the territory of the Éile (Ely).

Ballybritt Castle is in County Offaly near Danganreagh House, and southeast of Leap Castle.

There are only a few Flanagans in the Ely Carroll project at Family tree DNA. Like Carroll, the surname Flanagan is found throughout Ireland. The percentage of Flangans with Ely carroll Y-DNA has not been measured, but it is expected to be relatively small.

Ely Carroll DNA Project – Testing

The test results evaluated here all came from Family Tree DNA. Only 67 or 111 markers tested are included here because those tests include the 66th marker, 492, which is crucial to the analysis.

If you are a male with the name of an Ely Carroll descendant, you may benefit from participating in the Ely Carroll DNA Project at Family Tree DNA.

Family Tree DNA has the largest DNA database in the field. For a look inside the FTDNA lab, see "A Visit to Family Tree DNA's State-of-the-Art Lab," written by Cece Moore in February 2013 based on a tour in November 2012.

The Ely Carroll DNA Project was started in January 2011. The project is designed to attract Ely Carroll descendants, encourage upgrades to the 67-marker test, and promote Ely Carroll research.

You can participate in our project as well as a project specifically set up for your surname. There is no additional cost for being part of two projects.

By testing the Y-chromosome DNA, males can determine the origin of their paternal line. Note that the Y-chromosome DNA strictly checks the paternal line, with no influence of any females along that line. Females do not receive the Y-chromosome, and therefore females cannot be tested for the paternal line. If you are a female and would like to know about your paternal line, you would have to find a brother or a male relative from that line willing to be tested.

The two swabs and scraper tubes in the FTDNA Kit. For more on how it's done, see "DNA Collection Method" by Dave Dorsey.

Y-chromosome DNA goes back male to male like traditional surnames.

You sign up online for FTDNA and they deduct the cost from your credit card. They send you in the mail a kit containing two scrapers that you use to swab the inside of your cheeks in four-hour intervals. You return the scrapers in receptacles and mailer provided in the kit. You get final results on line two months later.

If you decide to have your DNA tested, you should choose the 67 or 111 markers. The lesser tests of 12, 25, or 37 markers do not include marker 492, which is key to verifying a match with Ely Carroll descendants.

Most names have multiple origins. For example, there are Carrolls with 25 different types of DNA. For this reason, your results may show that your DNA does not match the Ely Carroll DNA, which will lead you in a different ancestry direction.

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Ely Carroll DNA Project – Results

FTDNA Test Results. FTDNA provides two kinds of test results: individual and public.

• Individual Test Results (homepage called myFTDNA, password-protected)
  • Y-DNA
    • Haplogroup
    • Matches
    • Y-STR Results
    • Haplotree & SNPs
  • Big Y
    • Block Tree
    • Matches
    • Results
    • Y-STR Results
  • Personal Information (click on your name in the upper right hand corner)
    • Account Settings
      • Account Information
      • Genealogy
        • Surnames
        • Earliest Known Ancestors
      • Privacy & Sharing
      • Project Preferences
      • Notification Preferences
    • Order History
  • myProjects (in addition to the Ely Carroll project, we suggest joining projects for your surname, DF21, L21, P312, R1b)
• Public Test Results for current Ely Carroll project participants
  • STR results, including subgroup, kit, ancestor name, and haplogroup
  • SNP results, including kit, ancestor name, and haplogroup

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Ely Carroll Big Y SNP Tree

The following pointers will help to navigate the Ely Carroll Big Y SNP Tree shown in the window below.

1. SNPs. SNPs (e.g., Z16291) are single nucleotide polymorphisms, or mutations, found on the Y chromosome of male BIG Y testers. SNPs that are inherited by two or more testers allow the creation of tree branches with named SNPs.
2. Testers. After each SNP are the names of Big Y testers whose DNA named the SNP.
3. Subgroup. Click on the subgroup after a SNP to see the names of Big Y testers (y) and other members who are predicted to have the SNP. The subgroups are based on surname, genetic distance among group members, and unique STRs. Shown is a matrix of the the 67-STR genetic distances among the members based on the McGee Utility.
4. Year. The year shown after a SNP is the estimated year of the most recent SNP in the block of SNPs in which the SNP occurs. A block of SNPs consists of one or more SNPs possessed by all testers who descend from the block. The order of a block's SNPs is unknown. The number of SNPs affects the year estimate. Estimates have been made by Family Tree DNA Discover starting in September 2022. Estimates are necessarily very rough. Click on the SNP to see information about the estimate.
5. Unique STRs. Shown after some SNPs are STRs (short tandem repeats) that are unique for that SNP.
6. Public Results Index Number. The italicized three-digit number (e.g., 100) helps you find a tester's category on the FTDNA public results page for the Ely Carroll project. Click on the number to go to the public results page. Shown are tester last name, kit number, ancestor's name and country, haplogroup (SNP), and up to 111 STRs.

(See also Abridged Tree.)

About the Tree. The tree shows Y-chromosome SNPs of Ely Carroll BIG Y testers. BIG Y is a Y-chromosome testing program offered by Family Tree DNA since 2014. It identifies a man's SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms) and compares those SNPs with other men it has tested. The Ely Carroll BIG Y SNP Tree includes the SNPs of all Ely Carroll members who have been tested under the Family Tree DNA BIG Y program, which tests a large part of the Y-chromosome. The tree is based on Family Tree DNA's Bigy Y tree.

Michael Sager of FTDNA maintans a Public Y-DNA Haplotree. Tester surnames are shown if two or more kits allow public project profile sharing and have the same surname spelling. See also: Public Y-DNA Haplotree

For a summary of BIG Y, see the FTDNA Big Y Q&A.

SNPs are either named or unnamed.

• Unnamed SNPs have a 7 or 8 digit number based on their position on the Build 37 human reference genome. The letters indicate the nature of the mutation, e.g. from C to T.
• Named SNPs have been given a short name to make them easieer to remember. If you wave over them with your cursor, you will see the longer SNP designation. SNP names start with letters.
  • "A" SNPs were named by Thomas Krahn. See the YSEQ SNP Index.
  • "BY" SNPs were found with Big Y at Family Tree DNA. See the BY SNP Index.
  • "F" SNPs were named by Li Jin at Fudan University in China.
  • "FGC" SNPs were named by Full Genomes Corporation of Virginia and Maryland.
  • "L" SNPs were named by Thomas Krahn in honor of the late Leo Little.
  • "M" SNPs were named by Peter Underhill, Ph.D., of Stanford University.
  • "PF" SNPs were named by Paolo Francalacci at the Università di Sassari in Italy.
  • "S" SNPs were named by James F. Wilson, D.Phil. at Edinburgh University.
  • "Y" SNPs were named by the YFull Team using data from the 1000 Genomes Project.
  • "Z" SNPs were assigned by the Community.

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Ely Carroll DNA Database – Modal DNA and Key Markers

The study of Ely carroll DNA began with a preliminary modal DNA for relatively small number of people who had Ely Carroll names and DNA similar. This modal DNA evolved into a modal DNA, based on data from the Ely Carroll DNA Project. This Ely Carroll Modal DNA is now the one used in this study. Since June 2009 the database of people with Ely Carroll DNA has expanded and the modal has been recomputed. Each time, the modal has remained the same.

A reference group was put together of people who do not have the Ely Carroll DNA. This group helps to understand the uniqueness of Ely Carroll DNA, such as marker 492=11.

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Historical Surnames

The identification of Ely Carroll DNA rests on the pedigree of the person with kit 112378 who is descended from Charles carroll of Carrollton. It also rests upon the similarity between a set of related names in ancient pedigrees and a set of names among men with matching DNA. See Two Matching Sets of Nine Names.

Many people with Ely Carroll DNA do not have historical surnames. The major names are: Purcell, Springer, Tracey. Ely Carroll DNA has not yet been found for two historical Ely Carroll names: Healy, O'Gara/O'Hara.

Many people do not know where their patronymic ancestor came from, which is not uncommon. Only a small number of those tested live in Ireland. Most live in America. Many of those have resorted to DNA testing for the very reason that they do not know where there ancestors came from when the emigrated to America.

The Ely Carroll database includes some people with non-Irish sounding names. It includes some people who are related to each other. It includes surnames where there is only one representative.

Some names historically associated with Ely Carroll, like Healy, O'Hara/O'Gara, and Corcoran, are not found in the study. There are a number of good reasons.

• Only a small number of people have had their DNA tested thus far.
• Many who have had their DNA tested have tested only 12, 25, or 37 markers rather than the 67 required for this study.
• Some people have been tested by an organization other than Family Tree DNA.
• Some people may have lost their name because an ancestor changed his name or was adopted.
• Ancient pedigrees probably included some surnames of people who were not really Ely Carroll descendants.

There are many people in the Ely Carroll database that do not have historical Ely Carroll surnames. There are a number of good reasons.

• The historical lists of Ely Carroll descendants were incomplete.
• The name is on an historical list of Ely Carroll descendants but we have not found it yet.
• In early Irish history there was the concept of “fostering,” where two powerful tribal leaders would place their infant son with the other family to seal a defensive alliance. It is likely that some of these sons took on the tribal name of the family with whom they were placed.
• There was a name change by an ancestor.
• They or an ancestor were adopted.

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Multiple-Sept Surnames

The descendants of Ely Carroll share a common pattern of Y-chromosome DNA markers, and many have surnames mentioned in ancient genealogies as descending from Ely Carroll. Not all people with Ely Carroll surnames, however, have Ely Carroll DNA. In the early days of Y-DNA testing, there was a tendency for people with Ely Carroll names to think that they were descended from Ely Carroll just because they had an Ely Carroll name.

Most people with Ely Carroll DNA are not the majority of those with their surname. In fact, the majority of people with Ely Carroll DNA are a minority of those with their surname. And, therefore, most people with Ely Carroll surnames do not have Ely Carroll DNA. The reason is that most Irish surnames appear in mutiple septs. For example, an analysis of people named Carroll indicates 25 different septs.

There are several explanations for this phenomenon of multiple-sept surnames.

• The same surname developed independently in different geographic areas.
• At the time surnames came into being around a thousand years ago, many surnames were based on relatively common given names.
• A male was adopted by a clan other than the one he was born in.
• A male married a woman from another clan and took her surname, perhaps because it was a more respected name.
• A male changed his surname when he was ennobled or otherwise came into possession of territory, perhaps adopting the name of a respected prior holder of that territory.
• A male was a subordinate (vassal, servant, slave, etc) of a member of another clan and took his master's surname when he became free.
• A male took the surname of another clan without any connection to the clan, simply because it was a respected name.

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Two Matching Sets of Nine Names

The identification of Ely Carroll DNA rests upon the similarity between a set of nine names in the ancient genealogy of Cian and a set of nine names among 61 testers out of a total of 163 with R-Z16284 Y-DNA. It also rests on the pedigree of testers with kits 112378 and 738989, who are descended from Charles Carroll the Settler (shown in bold below).

Many people with Ely Carroll DNA do not have historical surnames. The major names are: Purcell, Springer, Tracey. Ely Carroll DNA has not yet been found for two historical Ely Carroll names: Healy and O'Gara/O'Hara. See Historical Surnames.

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R-M269, L21, and DF21 SNPs

The Z16291 SNP for Ely Carroll is descended from three well-known SNPs: M269, L21, and DF21.

Map of Ely Carroll SNPs by FTDNA, as of November, 2022. R-M269 is on the far right north of the Caspian Sea.

Any tester with Ely Carroll DNA who has tested STRs but has not done SNP testing is predicted by FTDNA to have the M269 SNP. The M269 SNP is the most common European haplogroup, greatly increasing in frequency on an east to west gradient. Its prevalence in Poland is estimated at 22.7%, compared to Wales at 92.3%. See: Haplogroup R-M269. A real rough estimate of the year M269 was born is 4350 BC, based on the FTDNA as of November 2022. M269 is descended from M343, which is also refered to as the R1b haplogroup. There is an M343 Project at FTDNA.

R-M269 SNP Tree, Including L21

All Ely Carroll project members who have tested for the L21 SNP (single-nucleotide polymorphism) have tested positive. L21 was discovered in October 2008. People with the L21 SNP are said to be members of the R1b1a2a1a1b4 haplogroup. As groups of scientists discover SNPs, they are named for the research lab and the order in which they are found. The L in L21 indicates that it was found at the Family Tree DNA Genomic Research Center in Houston, Texas. The L stands for Leo Little who did much pioneering work in genetic genealogy and who died in 2008. (L21 is known as S145 in some testing organizations.)

The L21 SNP is sometimes referred to as a "Celtic" SNP.

L21 SNP Tree, Including DF21

Ely Carroll participants also have tested positive for the DF21 SNP, which is downstream of L21. The first Ely Carroll member tested positive for DF21 in August 2011. As of October 13, 13 of 48 members of the Ely Carroll project have tested for DF21 and all have tested positive. This further narrows the haplogroup for Ely Carroll descendants. All Ely Carroll descendants are expected to have the DF21 SNP. Other groups also have the DF21 SNP--perhaps 10 percent of all those with the L21 SNP. The DF21 SNP is estimated to be 4000 years old (see Rathlin Man 1). It was discovered by an anonymous researcher using publicly available full-genome-sequence data, including the 1000 Genomes Project data. The DF in DF21 is taken from DNA-Forums.org, a now-defunct genetic genealogy community. (DF21 is known as S192 in some testing organizations.)

DF21 SNP Tree, Including Ely Carroll

Ely Carroll participants are urged to join the L21 project and DF21 project at FTDNA. The DF21 project has been set up by David Reynolds for people who have tested positive for the DF21 SNP or are interested in ordering the test.

In April 2014, Alex Williamson identifed new Y-chromosome SNPs for Ely Carroll testers downstream of DF21. The SNPs came from a new product called BIG Y, which looks at more than 1/3 of the testable portion of the Y chromosome.

Without BIG Y, we identified Ely Carroll DNA with two key marker values: 390=25 and 492=11. The first became known when FTDNA started. The second became known in 2006 when 67 markers became available. We also have Ely Carroll modal DNA, which was started in 2010. And, since 2012, we know that all Ely Carrolls have the DF21 SNP. We are thankful for all that. But we knew it would be better if we had a SNP downstream of DF21 that specifically identified Ely Carroll DNA. BIG Y has done that.

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Analysis of L21 and DF21 DNA

The following table compares various groups with DF21 DNA along with other groups with L21 DNA. Based on very rough estimates, these groups constitute 50% of L21.

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History Lessons

Verification of Ancient Irish History

DNA testing has verified that Ely Carroll existed in Munster. But, DNA testing has also corrected some ancient genealogical connections that had historically been thought to exist. DNA testing shows that two other historical Munster pedigrees said to be descended from brothers of Cian, Owen Mor (Eoghanachta) and Cormac Cas (Dalcassian, including Brian Boru), are not related to Cian (Ely Carroll). They all have R-L21 and DF13 Y-DNA, but that DNA was formed around 2450 BC, whereas Oliol Olum's father, Eoghan Mor, fought in 122 AD against Conn of the Hundred Battles.

Three Sons of Olioll Mor

• Owen Mor, ancestor of McCarthy, Sullivan, O'Keefe: R-L21>DF13>FGC11134>CTS4466, 300 BC (Eoghanachta/South Irish DNA)
• Cormac Cas, ancestor of O'Brien, McMahon, Kennedy: R-L21>DF13>ZZ10>Z253>L226, 250 AD (Dalcassian, including Brian Boru DNA)
• Cian, ancestor of Carroll, Meagher, O'Hara: R-L21>DF13>DF21>S5488>Z16294>Z16291, 150 AD (Ely Carroll DNA)

The fact that some historic connections are contradicted by DNA should not be taken as a denunciation of all history.

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How to Explain DNA to Your Family

One of Lee Morton's relatives had asked sometime ago about DNA and the Bowes family. At the time, he wasn't comfortable with DNA itself, but he didn't give up and spent a hours on it, consulting Martha Bowes and myself. Here is what he came up with.

ANCESTOR RESEARCH USING THE PAPER TRAIL AND DNA

THE PAPER TRAIL

Traditionally, family historians and genealogists research family history using the so-called “paper trail”. They start with preliminary talks with immediate family members which yield varying insights into a particular family’s history. Once in a while, these searchers may “hit it big” by finding significant work already done by a family member. At some point, the researcher must continue the process back in time by following the paper trail.

The paper trail involves searching through various documents looking for life events of ancestors. In no particular order, documents include birth certificates, baptism certificates, marriage records, divorce proceedings, military records, death certificates, cemetery records, newspaper obituaries, City Directories (old telephone books), census records, and many others. Generally, a researcher works through these records from the certainty of known events backwards through time.

THE CARROLL FAMILY OF IRELAND AND MARYLAND

More affluent or otherwise well-known ancestors sometimes leave behind a treasure trove of genealogical information in the form of written family histories. The Carroll Family of Ireland and Maryland is a good example. Charles Carroll the Settler (1661-1720) was born and raised in Ireland, was a wealthy land-owner there and came to Maryland in 1688. His son Charles Carroll of Annapolis (1702-1782) and Grandson Charles Carroll of Carrollton (1737-1832) continued the family dynasty in Maryland, mainly through extensive land holdings and farming. Charles Carroll of Carrollton became a highly respected politician in Maryland and was a Signer of the Declaration of Independence.

When Charles the Settler came to the US in 1688, he brought an Irish manuscript with the genealogy of the O’Carroll Clan which remains in the possession of current-day Carroll descendants. The Carroll history, both in Ireland and Maryland, is covered extensively in a book titled “Princes of Ireland, Planters of Maryland – A Carroll Saga, 1500-1782” by Ronald Hoffman in collaboration with Sally D. Mason, published by the University of North Carolina Press in 2000.

According to Hoffman’s book, the Maryland Carrolls were descendants of the Ely O’Carrolls of the Slieve Bloom Mountains which run for about 15 miles across the southeastern part of County Offaly in the Irish Midlands. Quoting Hoffman, Ely O’Carroll was the territory in which the O’Carrolls originally lived in Munster during medieval times. It encompassed parts of the modern counties of Offaly, Northern Tipperary and Laois.

The progenitor of the Carroll branch that produced the Maryland Carrolls was a Chief of Ely named Daniel O’Carroll from Litterluna in the northeast corner of Ballybritt. Daniel’s great-grandson, who died in 1377, was the last of the Litterluna Carrolls to be called a “Chief of Ely”.

The pedigree for Charles Carroll of Carrollton goes back before the creation of surnames in the 10th century AD, so it includes other names besides Carroll including Meagher, Tracey, Flanagan, and Dooley, as well as Bohan and Bowes.

THE BOWES

Jeane (Reisinger) Robinson (1948-2013) and I had independently researched our respective Bowes lines for years before we “met” on line about 2008. We both knew that our common great-grandparents were James J Bowes (1850-1896) and Catherine “Kate”(Haley) Bowes (~1859-1905) from Girardville, PA, near Pottsville in Schuylkill County. We also knew that James’ parents were Michael Bowes (1803-1865) and Anna “Nancy” (Wall) Bowes (~1815-1872) who were born in Ireland, and came to the US about 1848, and settled in the Pottsville area.

Jeane herself unearthed a few more major discoveries. She found that Michael Bowes was born February 20, 1803 in the civil parish of Muckalee in County Kilkenny, and his parents were Denis Boe and Mary Delaney. Michael married Anna Walls in Cretinclough, Muckalee, County Kilkenny on March 6, 1832. We don’t know, but possibly Denis and Mary were born there as well, probably in the early to mid 1700’s.

DNA AND GENEALOGY

What does DNA have to with genealogy? Well, we are talking about a part of DNA that is handed down from father to son just like surnames. It is called Y-chromosome DNA. Only males have it. Your DNA is contained in the cells of your body. And all the cells in your body have the same DNA, even your spit.

Jeane had just been introduced to DNA and was looking for a male ancestor line from herself back to James Bowes of Girardville. Being a female, Jeane has no Y-DNA and there were no males in her family with a straight line to James Bowes. My DNA would only tell us about Mortons. So we had to find a male Bowes whose father and grandfather, etc. were direct male descendants of James J. Bowes. That’s when we met Tom Bowes. Even though Tom has no interest in genealogy, he agreed to be tested for all of us and we entered the world of DNA with absolutely no knowledge of it nor of what we might discover.

Tom's DNA would not do us any good unless other people with Bowes and related surnames got their DNA tested as well. Fortunately, a company named Family Tree DNA started testing people's DNA in 1999. They are the largest company in the business, and one with an excellent reputation for quality work. FTDNA now has a database of a half million people. That's a small portion of the population, but big enough to be helpful. The database is available to the public online through various projects administered by volunteers approved by FTDNA.

People who have their DNA tested at FTDNA can join multiple projects. A surname project has people with the same or similar surnames but not necessarily the same type of DNA. A DNA-specific project has people with the same DNA but different surnames. One of the first things learned from Y-DNA testing is that there is a variety of DNA types among people with the same or similar surnames. And, there is a variety of surnames among people with the same DNA. The main reason is that surnames were not adopted until the 10th century AD, at which time people who were related took different surnames, usually based on their given name. And a lot of unrelated people had the same given name.

You sign up online for FTDNA, and they deduct the cost from your credit card. They mail you a kit containing scrapers you use to sample your saliva by swabbing inside your cheek. (You don't have to spit!) You return the scrapers in receptacles and a mailer provided in the kit. You get final results on line two months later. The cost depends on how much of your DNA you have tested. You can upgrade later if you find you want to test more than you signed for originally.

DNA SHOWS CONNECTION BETWEEN THE CARROLLS AND THE BOWES

Tom signed up for his test in February 2010. When results from his sample came in, I quickly realized I was in way over my head with the technicalities of the DNA science and language, and never learned to interpret the data provided by FTDNA. Luckily, there are volunteers at FTDNA who can do that, especially if there is a group of clients searching for the same ancestor. Luckily again, there was a group interested in the name Bowes.

My first contact was Martha Bowes who was administrator of the Bowes surname project at FTDNA. Later, I became aware that Peter Biggins was working on an Ely Carroll DNA project. Also, Jeane Robinson talked to Martha frequently and was able to work her way through the technicalities and strange DNA language to reach some well-founded conclusions. Jeane stayed close to Martha building an understanding of what Tom’s test meant for us. As Jeane put it: “In our Y-DNA (i.e., Tom’s), we have a gene sequence that came from a man whose ancestors lived in the Ely Carroll area of Ireland. He had a gene mutation that set his descendants apart. The reason we are sure we are from Ely Carroll is because a descendant of Charles Carroll of Carrollton with known roots to the Carroll clan of Ely Carroll, is a DNA match to us. So, if his roots go to Ely Carroll, (there is a paper trail to show that this is true in Irish history), and we are a genetic match to him with this unique mutation in our Y-DNA, then our roots go back Ely Carroll. DNA doesn’t lie, we match.” To be clear, we ourselves do not have a line back to Charles Carroll, but we do have a line back to the Ely Carroll clan.

So, in 2008, a current-day descendant of the Carroll family of Maryland agreed to be tested by FTDNA. Two years later, Tom Bowes had his DNA tested by FTDNA, and the results proved a DNA match between the Carroll and Bowes families. The certainty of DNA proves that beyond a doubt. This is not to say that the Bowes family is descended from the Carrolls – there is no evidence of that. But we are related to them – and therefore to a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

As to when that Bowes – Carroll relationship occurred in time, we have no evidence of that, and may never find it. It could have been 300, 500, a thousand years ago – or more.

The clincher in this study is that Tom's DNA matches not only the Carroll of Maryland DNA but also the DNA of people with other names that are supposed to be descended from Ely Carroll, including Meagher, Tracey, Flanagan, and Dooley.

Lee Morton, October 20, 2013

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Bibliography

Princes of Ireland, Planters of Maryland: A Carroll Saga, 1500-1782 by Ronald Hoffman, The University of North Carolina Press, 2000 (paperback 2002).

• Annals of the Four Masters, 1632-1636, translated into English from the original Irish:
  • John O'Donovan, 1848-1851:
    • Volume 1 (from the earliest period to the year 902)
    • Volume 2 (years 903-1171)
    • Volume 3 (years 1172-1372)
    • Volume 4 (years 1373-1500)
    • Volume 5 (years 1501-1588)
    • Volume 6 (years 1589-1616)
  • Owen Connellan, 1845: Volume 3 (years 1171 to 1392) with extensive annotation
• DNA USA: A Genetic Portrait of America by Bryan Sykes, 2012.
• Daniel Carroll II, One Man and His Descendants, 1730-1978 by Mary Virginia Geiger, 1979.
• The History of Ireland, by Geoffrey Keating (1569-1644), translated into English from the original Irish:
  • Translation 1, by David Comyn and Patrick S. Dinneen in the early 1900s
  • Translation 2, by John O'Mahony, 1857
• Irish Families, Their Names, Arms and Origins by Edward MacLysaght (1887-1986), Irish Academic press, 1957. Revised or reprinted in 1972, 1978, 1985, and 1991
• Irish Names and Surnames by Rev. Patrick Woulfe, Dublin,1923. Reprinted by Genealogical Publishing Co. in 1967, 1969, 1993
• Irish Pedigrees; or, the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation, by John O'Hart
  • First Edition, 1876
  • Second Edition, 1878
  • Third Edition, 1881
  • Fourth Edition, 1887
  • Fifth Edition, 1892: Volume I and Volume II
• Medieval Gaelic Sources, by Katharine Simms, Four Courts Press, 2009
• Ordnance Survey Letters for Offaly in 1838, hand written by historian John O'Donovan and his assitant Thomas O'Conor and published in a typescript by Fr. Michael Flanagan in 1933. Letters 54 to 57 pertain to Ely Carroll history.
  • 54. The Extent of Ely O'Carroll
  • 55. The Cantreds of Ely O'Carroll
  • 56. The Genealogy of the O'Carrolls
  • 57. Ely O'Carroll
• Princes of Ireland, Planters of Maryland: A Carroll Saga, 1500-1782 by Ronald Hoffman, The University of North Carolina Press, 2000 (paperback 2002)
• A Social History of Ancient Ireland by Patrick Weston Joyce, 1903: Volume I and Volume II
• Special Report on Surnames in Ireland, by Sir Robert Edwin Matheson, 1909.
• The Story of the Irish Race: A Popular History of Ireland, by Seumas MacManus, 1921.
• Surnames, DNA, & Family History, by George Redmonds, Turi King, and David Hey, Oxford University Press, 2011
• The Surnames of Ireland by Edward MacLysaght (1887-1986), Barnes & Noble, Inc., 1969
• Varieties and Synonymes of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland, by Sir Robert Edwin Matheson, 1890.

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Links

• The Ely Carroll DNA Project is designed to attract Ely Carroll descendants, encourage testing pertinent to Ely Carroll DNA, and promote Ely Carroll research.
• Martha Bowes has a web page that discusses the Bowes Ely Carrolls: Bowes One-Name Study.
• The Heritage Office of County Offaly has a document on the Ballindarra Castle of Ely Carroll.
• Jack Wilson maintains a web page on the Maher, Meagher, Mahar Surname.

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